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From:  "Michelle" <drama_diva_au@y...>
Date:  Thu Mar 6, 2003  7:07 am
Subject:  Re: Countertenors and repertoire.

Thanks to everyone who gave their thoughts on this topic. I really
appreciate it actually, it has given me much to think about and
certainly has taught me that I don't know nearly as much as I hoped I
had about History of Opera even though I consistently achieved near
perfect scores in my undergrad exams on it.

Michael, sorry about the lack of paragraphs in such a lengthy post. I
sent it as a digest reply from yahoo mail which had double spaced
gaps when I sent it but obviously didn't keep it's formatting. Yahoo
really does have some major issues it should sort out. Hopefully
posting this from a different source will supply paragraphs.

A point I'd like to clarify. I muddied the waters a bit by talking
about sexuality and countertenors in the same post which led to some
misunderstanding. I know perfectly well that voice type has nothing
at all to do with sexual designation and indeed many countertenors
are heterosexual, so I apologise if anyone thought I was inferring
the opposite and were quite possibly offended. It was unintentional.

Michael asked >>>>in other areas of music (rock, gospel,
barbershop, etc.) voices that are not "classical" but could be called
countertenor are common - does your bias against higher male voices
include these styles also?<<<<

Yup, for the most part it sure does. The Bee Gee's are a prime
example of something that has mystified me ever since I first heard
them. I never could get my head around what the heck they thought
they were doing. I liked some of the songs, HATED the delivery. But
then again they'd be a somewhat contrary example wouldn't they I
guess? Wouldn't everyone say they are just singing in falsetto? Don't
get to hear Gospel live in Aus. And I didn't know/even realise
countertenors sang Barbershop. (I probably just presumed they were
lovely high tenors.) In the very little I have heard I guess I
wouldn't have noticed it anyway as they voices all blend so
beautifully.

Susan, I hope your friend Dan has a wonderful time playing that
parrot, sounds marvellous. >>>>Because voice is my instrument. It's
how I express my soul. Sorry it's that selfish, but there it is.<<<<
I don't think it's selfish, I think I just overlooked that aspect
when considering why we do it.

As a teacher I constantly am trying to get my students to see singing
from all sides, and using our voice purely as an instrument without
engaging/expressing our intellect is something I have gotten into a
habit of telling them they must never do. It takes words to do that.
We are the instrument and we are the player and what sets us apart
(and to some extent above) is that we have words. It makes the voice
an amazingly complex and difficult instrument to master. It is
telling that vocalises for all their beauty are not part of
mainstream entertainment. (So horror of horrors, perhaps I am getting
set in my mindset. (If so then it's time to remedy that.)

Whenever I ask questions, here or anywhere else, I have a tendency
quite often, to play devil's advocate for the sake of finding out how
others think and feel and discover perspectives that I may not have
thought of. It rarely gets a hostile reaction but I sure as heck
learn a lot which is why I do it in the first place I guess. Most
times I just can't help it, it's just me.

Ed, thanks for that marvellous post. Entertaining AND educational,
LOL. I am beginning to get the idea though, that what you in the
Northern hemishpere call countertenors may be what I have always
known as simply a very high or lighter-in-timbre tenor.

When I started at a Conservatorium no-one ever talked about
countertenors, not even in our pedagogy classes, as if they had never
existed. It wasn't till the nineties that we even heard of them
billed for performances and the ones I heard, in paid performances,
had a very high hooty GODAWFUL quality about them. Whereas some of
the very high tenors I was familiar with had voices like angels and
sang all the standard repertoire plus some and were not singled out
as some new discovery like a rare exotic bird that was once thought
extinct. Nor were they fussed over like some priceless museum exhibit
that can only breath rareified air and has to be kept in a manner
which befits their status. And they certainly never sang the soprano
arias in The Messiah. In Aus, or more correctly in Brisbane, the
countertenor during the nineties more often than not simply replaced
the soprano. A bad way to be introduced to them.


Mark, thankyou for an excellent contribution, it's given me much to
think about and cleared up some misconceptions. I don't know that
Brisbane has caught up with the Countertenor revolution in the rest
of the world or if it has it's keeping it locked in the hallowed
halls of academia or simply not naming it the same way.

>>>>I feel that you need to reexamine the repertoire.<<<< That much
is obvious I feel and I'm happy to do so. I've either forgotton or
been miseducated.

>>>>>Liturgical music can be sung by either now days regardless of
whom it was written for. It is more important that one communicates
and shares the gift given.<<<< Absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

>>>> It is a common mistake to think that nothing should be
transposed.<<<< And a very frustrating attitude to fight. I've been
waiting for this trend to turn around since I started singing, so
it's just as well I wasn't holding my breath.

>>>> Actually most of the repertoire that I sing in opera houses and
concert venues around the world were written for a man and the
characters are men. <<<< This is what I was curious about as this has
not been my experience of countertenors here at home.

>>>>But you must also remember when Rossini was asked what was needed
to become a successful opera singer, he replied "Voce, Voce, Voce."
<<<< As if any of us here would ever forget! :-D

Richard Miller in The Structure of Singing pgs 123-125 was most
elucidating for anyone else who needs some further clarification.


All the best

Michelle









  Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date  
23109 Re: Countertenors and repertoire.Michaelchosdad Thu  3/6/2003  
23111 Re: Countertenors and repertoire.Edward Nortonbelcantist2003 Thu  3/6/2003  
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