These Messages Sometimes make me wish I had the last
few minutes of my life back!
-I prefer to be unknown
--- vocalist-temporary@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
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>
> There are 23 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: messa di voce
> From: "Carl S. Rogers"
> <mikado3848@j...>
> 2. Re: Misc thoughts (wasThe Coordinated
> Falsetto Between Chest and Head)
> From: Margaret Harrison
> <peggyh@i...>
> 3. Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Colin Reed"
> <colin-reed@l...>
> 4. Re: Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Lloyd W. Hanson"
> <lloyd.hanson@n...>
> 5. Re: Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Lloyd W. Hanson"
> <lloyd.hanson@n...>
> 6. Re: Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Lloyd W. Hanson"
> <lloyd.hanson@n...>
> 7. Re: messa di voce
> From: "Christine Thomas"
> <Mezzoid@w...>
> 8. Re:"messa di voce"
> From: Edward Norton
> <belcantist2003@y...>
> 9. Re:"messa di voce"
> From: John Link <johnlink@n...>
> 10. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: Edward Norton
> <belcantist2003@y...>
> 11. Re: Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Colin Reed"
> <colin-reed@l...>
> 12. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: John Link <johnlink@n...>
> 13. Re: Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Colin Reed"
> <colin-reed@l...>
> 14. Re: messa di voce
> From: John Link <johnlink@n...>
> 15. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: Edward Norton
> <belcantist2003@y...>
> 16. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: John Link <johnlink@n...>
> 17. Re: Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Cynthia Donnell"
> <csdonnell@m...>
> 18. Re: Tel jour telle nuit
> From: "Cynthia Donnell"
> <csdonnell@m...>
> 19. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: James <bandb@n...>
> 20. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: "Colin Reed"
> <colin-reed@l...>
> 21. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: Edward Norton
> <belcantist2003@y...>
> 22. French style in melodie was: Telle jour,
> telle nuit
> From: thomas mark montgomery
> <thomas8@t...>
> 23. Re: Re:"messa di voce"
> From: Sandra Charker
> <scharker@c...>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:12:58 -0600
> From: "Carl S. Rogers" <mikado3848@j...>
> Subject: Re: messa di voce
>
> Dear Lloyd and Vocalisters,
>
> I want to add my own word of gratitude for Lloyd's
> posts. They are among
> the clearest distillations of the best in
> contemporary thought about the
> singing voice that I have seen.
>
> I think it is instructive to realize that one of
> Lloyd's basic points was
> made about 35 years ago by Vennard in his book
> "Singing: The Mechanism
> and the Technique." Since I "grew up" with that
> book, pedagogically,
> speaking, I have kept Vennard's points about messa
> di voce in the
> forefront of my own singing and teaching.
>
> Here are a few quotes (paragraphs 780, 783, 785 -
> pp. 213-4): "A
> breathy [tone] has no part in the classic vocal
> discipline....it is a
> drill in proper attack, avoiding either the glottal
> stroke or the breathy
> beginning, both of which waste breath. The
> explosive start ruins the
> pianissimo and the aspirate is not clear....In doing
> the
> messa di voce start with as near to a falsetto tone
> as you can, but have
> just a little heavy quality in it so that you can
> crescendo without an
> audible shift into 'chest.' There must be an
> entering wedge. Then as
> you crescendo, gradually drive in the wedge. There
> must be no moment
> when the chest voice is 'kicked in,' as some writers
> put it."
>
> The point is that I think Vennard has a felicitous
> way of describing the
> messa di voce.
>
> Regards,
> Carl Rogers
>
>
>
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>
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>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:25:32 -0500
> From: Margaret Harrison <peggyh@i...>
> Subject: Re: Misc thoughts (wasThe Coordinated
> Falsetto Between Chest and Head)
>
> "katherine94040 " wrote:
>
> > I disagree with the notion that as singers, we
> perforce learn to sing
> > by sensation. I think that is exactly what is
> wrong with voice
> > teaching today and for the past 100 or so years
> (since our beloved
> > Jean De Reske). Sensation is an utterly unreliable
> tool for teaching
> > or learning singing. In actual fact, when the
> voice is free,
> > unfettered and functioning well, there is little
> or no sensation to
> > be had.
> Unfortunately, the 40-odd muscles of the vocal
> > instrument are largely involuntary and NOT SUBJECT
> TO VOLITIONAL
> > CONTROL. Therefore, if one cannot feel their
> action, and one is being
> > taught to go for muscular feelings, one will
> invoke those muscular
> > feelings which ARE possible, i.e., tongue, jaw,
> outer walls of the
> > neck, shoulders, chest muscles, etc.
>
> I agree with the second part of what you wrote, but
> not with
> your conclusion that feelings/sensations are the
> "wrong" way
> to teach and learn singing. For me, as a kinetic
> learner,
> how something feels in my body is the ONLY effective
> way for
> me to learn. But, of course, the feelings have to
> be the
> feelings that go with the correct vocal
> coordinations. So I
> do agree that a teacher telling me what feelings I
> "should"
> have is dangerous, for the very reason you describe
> - I'm
> apt to be tensing the wrong things. The way that's
> been
> effective for me over the long term is for the
> teacher to
> help me find the correct coordinations by how my
> voice
> sounds and what she sees me doing or not doing, and
> me
> learning how the correct way feels, and after enough
> repetitions of the correct way, it becomes habitual,
> and I
> know how it feels in my body. Mirror work is also
> helpful
> in correcting unwanted tensions that are apparent
> visually,
> but I find it's useful to me only for short periods
> of time.
>
> Peggy
>
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